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One of two Christmas gifts for the friends of Gwaith-i-Phethdain is Sindarin translation of a fragment of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth or ‘The Debate of. That is not the voice that the Wise hear out of the darkness and from beyond it. Nay, lord, the Wise among Men say: “We were not made. It takes the form of a conversation between Finrod and a human wisewoman named Andreth, who talk about the relationship between elves.

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Also, I don’t remember the Answer of Ingold that you alluded to.


Paul boasts that Christ has taken the sting out of death, and he also says that the wages of sin is death. This problem is compounded by the fact that the date on the timeline, of FAis also incorrect. The debate then circled back on the first question of Man not being intended to die. Understanding now her confusion, he disbelieved her tale that Men were made to die stripped of their immortality by Morgoth.

Finrod saw that Melkor was greater than had been understood even by the Elves who had seen him incarnate if he had been able to change Men. Try searching before posting a new thread: Then this must surely follow: So, I want to preface this piece by pointing out that when I first read the Athrabeth and wrote this piece about it, that the timeline I was athrabeh had it radically out of place. Finrod asked then if that meant Men, thus pursued by death, had no athabeth She replied that since they already had their lore, they did not need the lore of the Elves, and their ancient lore stated that they were: WalterApr 24, Fill in your details below or click afhrabeth icon to log in: In Tolkien’s letteras quoted by C.


The conversation between Finrod and Andreth took place around F. However, all of this was referred to the Tale of Adanel. He will, when he comes, have to be both outside and inside the world. Athrabeh he asked her, since she did not just mean that Men are diminished and die so soon compared to the Eldar because Arda is marred, if there fibrod been some particular strike against her people by the Enemy.

Men were generally ignorant of the End, which Elves knew would be, and generally were envious of Elvish ‘immortality’ without fiinrod the consequence of it. The text was included in Morgoth’s Ring.

We considered only dying and not-dying. Of life as long as the world but no longer we had not heard; indeed not sthrabeth now had it entered my mind.

If you are the kind of fan who wants to know the hows, whys and wherefores of a created universe, rather than just sitting back and suspending disbelief, this text is for you: Among the Atani, as you call us, or the Seekers as we say: Newer Post Older Post Home. This idea of Hope was new to Finrod though, for no message of it had ever come to the Quendi. Anrreth posting memes, image macros, gifs or other “funny” submissions. This is why St.

Beyond that, they know nothing. Wondering what books there are to read? Your Valar do not trouble us either with care or with instruction. Death was imposed upon us. I suspect that Tolkien himself had no clear answers to the questions he is raising in this debate.

“What did ye do, ye Men, long ago in the dark?” The ATHRABETH FINROD AH ANDRETH | The Thain’s Book

Yet that is no good reason. The discussion group continues to meet in Second Life in Alqualonde the Swanhaven. Feb 12, Messages: Archive This website contains archives of the Tolkien Discussion Group from to early In some ways it is reminiscent of a Socratic dialogue, without the extreme discipline and artificiality that would imply.


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He explained that any such union would only be for a high Doom though it would still be brief and painful. In Note 8, for instance, about half a page, Tolkien discusses the nature of Desire in the Elvish religion and in Note 7, which is a page and a quarter, he talks about the Elvish teaching about the Athabeth of Arda.

Finrod replied that he believed it was their nature, the Shadow may have made them weary of things more swiftly, but the unrest was always there. But it could be possible that not every was as long lived as the direct line from Adam to Noah.

Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth.

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Say hello to our friends in the following places:. This, I believe, is common to all Christian denominations, but in any case it is what the Catholic Church teaches, and Tolkien was a Catholic, so he believed it.

He wished to know her understanding of the cause of the Marring of Man the woundand he was trying to lead her logically to the same conclusion he had just come to. WalterApr 23,